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Unread 05-13-2008, 06:51 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blutarsky View Post
.............. Sdtv
What does it mean ?
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Unread 05-13-2008, 06:56 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Blutarsky View Post
.............. SDTV. But as most valuable calibrators state, it is more important to gain a flat grayscale and gamma curve rather than primaries in place...
I know but with this display we are able to reach both targets .

My questions are :
- Should I continue to calibrate my display using the SDTV mode ?
- Should I need to use a HDTV DVD for the calibration ?
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Unread 05-13-2008, 07:01 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GorGorBey View Post
I know but with this display we are able to reach both targets .

My questions are :
- Should I continue to calibrate my display using the SDTV mode ?
- Should I need to use a HDTV DVD for the calibration ?
Well it depends on the standard you want. There has been a long discussion on this.... check out the following
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Unread 05-13-2008, 07:04 AM   #44
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Personally I think I will end using one input for SMPTE-C and one for HDTV:
- ISF day for SMPTE-C/REC601
- ISF night for REC701
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Unread 05-14-2008, 04:40 AM   #45
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GorGorBey,
it would be nice if you could post a .chc containing the measures in continuos mode, from 10 to 100, to appreciate how the i1pro beheaves.
Particullarly I'm interested in the "hops" up and down...
MAybe the optimum should be to perform some free measures showing at least 20 measures per each gray pattern (200 measures total).

Also the "day after" measurements would be good!
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Unread 05-14-2008, 09:10 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blutarsky View Post
GorGorBey,
it would be nice if you could post a .chc containing the measures in continuos mode, from 10 to 100, to appreciate how the i1pro beheaves.
Particullarly I'm interested in the "hops" up and down...
MAybe the optimum should be to perform some free measures showing at least 20 measures per each gray pattern (200 measures total).

Also the "day after" measurements would be good!
I will do my best to have a two days after measure tonight...For the rest I will see how the continuous mode is working...
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Unread 05-20-2008, 03:41 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blutarsky View Post
GorGor, how will you calibrate DTV?
Globally whatever the source, Colour (Primaries, Secondaries) are always at the same place (when calibrated). I saw that on 2 different sources (PS3and DVICO TVIX 4100 SH)

It's similar to Contrast & Luminosity even if there is some gap between sources...But this gap is not so big (at most +/- 1).

The problem comes from the grey scale because I saw more important differences...

So, I take the assumption that the colours parameter can be copied from my DVD settings.
I also take the assumption that I can copy Contrast & Luminosity. But I will need to adjust value with my eyes...

Regarding GreyScale I don't know...Perhaps I will test both settings (those obtained with both sources upper) and I’ll save the best one....

It's complicated, it’s not objective but I sure that it will be able to reach a good level of quality....
After All it's DTV and it's not so good...
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Unread 05-20-2008, 12:24 PM   #48
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This may sound like a dumb question, especially given my background in computer science, but how did you insert the serial port connector to the back of the TV? I see a RS-232 male port on the back of my TV. However, the USB-to-serial cable that I just got from Radio Shack has a male 9-pin end as well. Also, the Keyspan cable that Shawn recommends also has a male 9-pin end.

Do you need another gender changer to get this to work?
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Unread 05-20-2008, 01:17 PM   #49
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Lightbulb Pioneer 8G Kuro Elite / Step-up D Models using ISFccc Option - All Regions

Thread Started..

Last edited by Turbe; 05-20-2008 at 01:52 PM.
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Unread 05-20-2008, 01:30 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smkuro View Post
...Do you need another gender changer to get this to work?
Yes, you do. I use a female to female straight serial cable.

Make sure you have everything shut off when fastening the connector to the TV's serial port.
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Unread 05-20-2008, 01:41 PM   #51
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Yikes, I wish the instructions that come with ControlCAL were a bit more explicit in terms of such basics, like hooking it up. OK, I'll have rummage in the attic to see if I have a female serial-to-serial, otherwise its another trip to Radio Shack.

I am re-measuring as we speak, and things are looking a lot better in terms of the readings. With contrast set to 33, I am measuring 156 cd/m^2 (or about 46 ftL). This
seems more in line with what you were saying earlier. If I reduce brightness down by 3-4 notches, I get the 100% IRE window measurement to be around 39 ftL.

Interestingly, the gray scale really flattens out at the low end if I keep the contrast at 33 or so. Otherwise, things get a bit messed up at the low end.

OK, gray scale looks amazingly flat and RGB levels are all very close all the way from 10 to 100 IRE. The CIE chart looks a little better than before, with all primaries very close (and secondaries as well).

Get ready for the surprise! The gamma curve is .... still messed up! It looks a little bit better than before, but not by a lot. It varies from near 1.1 at the high end to > 2.5 at the low end.

Any suggestions? (I need to get ControlCAL working, of course).
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Unread 05-20-2008, 03:40 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by smkuro View Post
...This seems more in line with what you were saying earlier. If I reduce brightness down by 3-4 notches, I get the 100% IRE window measurement to be around 39 ftL.
In my experience Brightness should be from 0 to -1 for nighttime, not much less and certainly not without being able to offset it with the gamma controls in ControlCAL. You shouldn't use Brightness to change the 100% measurement. If you have Brightness at -3 or -4 you are killing the shadow detail and the gamma tracking will reflect that as you see in the graph.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smkuro View Post
...Get ready for the surprise! The gamma curve is .... still messed up! It looks a little bit better than before, but not by a lot. It varies from near 1.1 at the high end to > 2.5 at the low end.

Any suggestions? (I need to get ControlCAL working, of course).
A bit too tired right now to be of any use, but your settings from before looked decent with contrast in the 33 range it should give good results.

Post your new .chc file and I can have a look tomorrow or perhaps others are awake now and can help.
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Unread 05-20-2008, 03:42 PM   #53
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Obviously, to existing Members, the Posts above have been copied from the Non-Public Beta Threads..

-Shawn
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Unread 05-21-2008, 11:32 AM   #54
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I'm still confused about the need to do a REFRESH. Let's say I am calibrating input 7 in ISF-DAY mode. Obviously, I am going to set the inputs the way I want to, on panel 1 and 2. Why is there a need to do a refresh at the very beginning? This is the step that gives rise to many error values, in my case (and the received values are then shown in RED, which gets me worried).

Regarding the Sencore interface, one thing that is worth taking from that is the use of a radio button for the ISF-Day or ISF-Night buttons. The problem with your interface is that once I click on ISF-DAY or ISF-Night, I have no visual indication on ControlCAL to tell me which mode I am in. Of course, I can turn OSD on and see on the TV, but it would be nice to have that on the software as well.

OK, gang:

Count me in the group of ControlCAL hackers! I now understand how to use this very useful piece of software! I created ISFDay and ISFNight for inputs 4-7, and calibrated them to have flat gray scale and reasonable contrast. The CIE diagram looks nice.

Unfortunately, the Gamma curve is nowhere near flat. I played with the Gamma settings a bit, but aside from noticing the huge effect on the grayscale, I saw no effect on my gamma curve.

Can someone suggest how to modify the gamma curve to make it flat. It is right now > 2.8 or so at the low end (10-20 IRE) and < 1.3 at the high end (80-100 IRE).

I assume gamma point low numbers affect low IRE and gamma point high numbers affect high IRE. Should I decrease or increase R, G, and B at each of these settings.

Thanks again for all the help!
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Unread 05-21-2008, 08:05 PM   #55
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Aaahh... success! Amazingly, the problem was the generation of test patters using HCFR. When I measured gamma using the AVS HD-DVD disc, the gamma curve looked much nicer. Minor tweaks to contrast (28) and brightness (-2) brought gamma in line, flat as a pancake (well, almost, 2.2 at the low and 2.13 at the high).

Colors look almost 100% right, with extremely minor errors. The only problem is that the grayscale is no longer razor flat, but slightly bumpy (+/- 200 degrees in 2 places). I think this is really hard to correct. The 9-point gamma controls are really hard to work with. One bump here, and everything goes crazy. Best not to play with these too much.

Time to sit back and enjoy the results! I'll recalibrate after putting on a few hundred hours more on the TV....

Thanks all -- I learned an awful lot. Someone needs to investigate why the gamma computation using HCFR internal patterns was so completely wrong. And I thought it had to do with the Display 2 sensor. No, this sensor is actually really really good (For the money).
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Unread 05-22-2008, 01:40 PM   #56
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Default Calibration files for my Pro110FD

I'm attaching two calibration files for my 110FD, one for ISF-Day and the other for ISF-Night. It is interesting to see the tradeoffs between trying to get a smooth gamma curve, vs. a smooth gray scale. ISF-Night gets the gamma right around 2.2, but the gray scale is a bit bumpy. ISF-Day gets the gray scale smoother, but the gamma is a bit lower (2.1) and not quite so smooth. There are minor color errors to be fixed, especially cyan. But, overall, I'm happy with both of these. I like the fact that one can have two settings to compare. My feeling is that 2.2 as the gamma threshold is a bit high, and I am going to see tonight if I like 2.1 better.

Comments welcome! Thanks again to Shawn for his really neat program, which made this so much easier. I wish I could get reliable performance from the internal HCFR test patters, which would make calibration so much faster than using the AVS HD-DVD, and manually stepping through each pattern.
Attached Files
File Type: zip isf-day-may22.zip (1.3 KB, 77 views)
File Type: zip isf-night-dvd-manual.zip (2.2 KB, 55 views)
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Unread 05-23-2008, 02:33 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smkuro View Post
I'm attaching two calibration files for my 110FD, one for ISF-Day and the other for ISF-Night. It is interesting to see the tradeoffs between trying to get a smooth gamma curve, vs. a smooth gray scale. ISF-Night gets the gamma right around 2.2, but the gray scale is a bit bumpy. ISF-Day gets the gray scale smoother, but the gamma is a bit lower (2.1) and not quite so smooth. There are minor color errors to be fixed, especially cyan. But, overall, I'm happy with both of these. I like the fact that one can have two settings to compare. My feeling is that 2.2 as the gamma threshold is a bit high, and I am going to see tonight if I like 2.1 better.

Comments welcome! Thanks again to Shawn for his really neat program, which made this so much easier. I wish I could get reliable performance from the internal HCFR test patters, which would make calibration so much faster than using the AVS HD-DVD, and manually stepping through each pattern.
Nice but you should be able to have a better RVB curve...

ISF Night...

Try these two advices :
- Increase Red Gamma at 70 IRE of 1 point
- Decrease Blue Gamma at 50 IRE of 1 point

It should solve your issues regarding RVB curve and the impact on the Gamma curve should be not much important...
Attached Files
File Type: zip LX508D.zip (24.5 KB, 52 views)
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Last edited by GorGorBey; 05-23-2008 at 02:42 AM.
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Unread 05-23-2008, 10:55 AM   #58
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Yes, I've tried smoothing out the gray scale by tweaking the Red and Blue Gammas, but I find that plays havoc with the gamma curve. If you plot the individual Red, Blue, Green gammas, you find that any changes in the gamma 9 point scale clearly show up. So, this is a compromise -- I think the overall gray scale is overrated in terms of its importance. It is probably more important to keep R, G, and B values in balance.

I'll play with this some more, and keep you updated.
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Unread 05-23-2008, 05:52 PM   #59
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Default Better gamma curve

OK, following GorGorBey's suggestion, here's an improved calibration file with far better gamma. Now, the curve is quite flat, and the individual R,G,B gammas are much tighter (especially red). I now understand how to use the very useful 9-point gamma controls.

The lower end of the gray scale needs tightening somewhat, which is my next step. And then perhaps I can get cyan closer to the reference.

On another topic: I wonder if it would be possible to unlock the noise control (3D) in thbe ISF-day or ISF-night settings. Yesterday, I was watching Room With a View on Blu-Ray: marvellous transfer, but the film grain was quite noticeable in many scenes. It would be nice to have that noise reduction system activated. I guess I could aways set that control ON in ISF-Day and have it disabled in ISF-night (or vice versa).

Too bad we can't rename the ISF-Day or ISF-night to something more meaningful.
Attached Files
File Type: zip isf-day-may23.zip (1.2 KB, 46 views)
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Unread 05-26-2008, 06:25 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smkuro View Post
OK, following GorGorBey's suggestion, here's an improved calibration file with far better gamma. Now, the curve is quite flat, and the individual R,G,B gammas are much tighter (especially red). I now understand how to use the very useful 9-point gamma controls.

The lower end of the gray scale needs tightening somewhat, which is my next step. And then perhaps I can get cyan closer to the reference.

On another topic: I wonder if it would be possible to unlock the noise control (3D) in thbe ISF-day or ISF-night settings. Yesterday, I was watching Room With a View on Blu-Ray: marvellous transfer, but the film grain was quite noticeable in many scenes. It would be nice to have that noise reduction system activated. I guess I could aways set that control ON in ISF-Day and have it disabled in ISF-night (or vice versa).

Too bad we can't rename the ISF-Day or ISF-night to something more meaningful.
It's much better now because it's perfect at 70 IRE (this IRE is very important....)

Regarding cyan, you can adjust the value by using the saturation measure of ColorHCFR...

For The low end, What sort of sensor do you have ?
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