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Unread 05-15-2008, 09:08 AM   #21
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Then and only then can one conclude if using Display 2/LT to take measurements on plasma is the main issue.
Moreover we don't know where those fluctuations are really happening.

We know that we can push the dE into the <3 boundaries (in HCFR)..... but how is the measurement really copeing with that +/-4 dE of the Display LT?

Is it really a 2/3 dE curve we are looking at, or is it a 6/7 dE?

We will never know, and we will never be sure how to keep the meter in constant conditions......
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Unread 05-15-2008, 09:11 AM   #22
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I guess another question would be, with the I1 pro, should you purchase CalMAN (or will ColorHCFR take care of you)?
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Unread 05-15-2008, 09:25 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Turbe View Post
I guess another question would be, with the I1 pro, should you purchase CalMAN (or will ColorHCFR take care of you)?
I will say...Save your money and use ColorHCFR .
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Unread 05-15-2008, 09:27 AM   #24
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In the comparaison file (measure two days after in Combined histogram for free measure) you will be able to have continuous measures at 50 IRE and 60 IRE
Just ensure to have Luminance active to know when I changed from 50 to 60...

It was a secret bonus
Blutarsky, Did you see the continuous value in the file Measure after 2 days...

Turbe, I just downloaded Beta15 and launched the software (from the office).

I was able to see Tuner A,B,C...

What does it mean ? TV for A, DTV for B
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Unread 05-15-2008, 09:56 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by GorGorBey View Post
Blutarsky, Did you see the continuous value in the file Measure after 2 days...
Yes, are they at the same IRE level or....? Very interested in the low IRE side....
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Unread 05-15-2008, 09:59 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Blutarsky View Post
Yes, are they at the same IRE level or....? Very interested in the low IRE side....
no 50 IRE and 60 IRE...You should be able to see a big increase in the luminance graph...
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Unread 05-15-2008, 10:02 AM   #27
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Of course, shame on me!

.... need the low ones also!!!!
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Unread 05-15-2008, 10:03 AM   #28
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Ah no......... They're all on 60
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Unread 05-15-2008, 10:21 AM   #29
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You should have both IRE (50 IRE and 60 IRE)
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Unread 05-15-2008, 10:23 AM   #30
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Will check out.....
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Unread 05-15-2008, 11:19 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Blutarsky View Post
Moreover we don't know where those fluctuations are really happening.

We know that we can push the dE into the <3 boundaries (in HCFR)..... but how is the measurement really copeing with that +/-4 dE of the Display LT?

Is it really a 2/3 dE curve we are looking at, or is it a 6/7 dE?

We will never know, and we will never be sure how to keep the meter in constant conditions......
I guess so, but then that can be said about i1 Pro too. It's a low end sensor compared to the really sensitive ones which runs into the thousands of dollars price range.

You can see that CalMAN seems to reduce dE from measurements compared to HCFR using a Display 2 and i1 Pro even more so using HCFR and perhaps yet even more so using a i1Pro and CalMAN (I'd love to try that combo ).

I know that CalMAN has a lot more to offer than HCFR that goes beyond sensor support, but then it should be considering the cost - not unlike Display 2/LT vs i1 Pro. I'll write about my impressions using both in the software section eventually.
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Unread 05-15-2008, 11:33 AM   #32
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I guess so, but then that can be said about i1 Pro too.
UMR, that we all know seems to be a very picky person, is praiseing the i1pro with all kind of devices, and never read a complain about it.

Moreover in some of his posts he seems arguing that he feels more comfortable with the i1pro than his PR-670!!!
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Unread 05-15-2008, 11:51 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Blutarsky View Post
UMR, that we all know seems to be a very picking person, is praiseing the i1pro with all kind of devices, and never read a complain about it.

Moreover in some of his posts he seems arguing that he feels more comfortable with the i1pro than his PR-670!!!
Really, the posts I read from him seemed to state that nothing except his PR-670 Spectroradiometer would do.

I'll have to read up on his posts. Do you have any link(s) where he is doing the prasing, I would be very interested to read more about it.
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Unread 05-15-2008, 12:49 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Wolfy View Post
Really, the posts I read from him seemed to state that nothing except his PR-670 Spectroradiometer would do.

I'll have to read up on his posts. Do you have any link(s) where he is doing the prasing, I would be very interested to read more about it.
Of course I will
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Unread 05-15-2008, 12:51 PM   #35
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..........Here
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Unread 05-15-2008, 01:09 PM   #36
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Cheers, Blutarsky.
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Unread 05-15-2008, 03:18 PM   #37
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Post ColorHCFR / CalMAN and X-Rite Display 2 or LT / I1 Pro - Comparisons and Observations

INFO:

Most Users Posting here have 8G Pioneer Plasma Displays.

Most of the Posts above have been copied from the Non-Public Threads.


If any of the Beta Testers would like me to copy specific Posts from the Beta Threads into this Thread, please let me know.

Last edited by Turbe; 05-15-2008 at 03:45 PM.
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Unread 05-15-2008, 04:31 PM   #38
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QUOTED BY PERMISSION
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
I checked out Wolfy's post there. If I look at this graph you posted here:

And then compare it to the i1pro graph Wolfy posted for comparison:

The i1pro is clearly better. Nobody is denying that, and it should be because it's significantly more expensive! But the results are only noticeable on a graph, andI don't watch TV on a graph!!!

It's all about perspective. You may look at those graphs and say, "I'm not satisfied with that accuracy", which is fine, go buy the fancier pro device. But I look and that and say, "gee, the D2LT performs really well for a fraction of the cost, certainly getting it close enough that I could never see the difference even under direct comparison. That's good enough for me!"

But to declare the D2LT to be useless for plasma is a massive exaggeration, when the graphs and tests you are referencing show it to be pretty darn good. We're talking about the difference between 99% of the way there and 99.9% of the way there. If pretty darn good isn't good enough for you, then by all means, buy the nicer device.
Attached Images
File Type: png i1Display2_LT_-grayscale-HCFR-small.png (12.6 KB, 256 views)
File Type: png i1Pro-grayscale-small.png (11.8 KB, 250 views)

Last edited by Turbe; 05-15-2008 at 05:03 PM.
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Unread 05-15-2008, 05:31 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbe View Post
I guess another question would be, with the I1 pro, should you purchase CalMAN (or will ColorHCFR take care of you)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GorGorBey View Post
I will say...Save your money and use ColorHCFR .
With our new i1Pro pricing the meter itself is now only $599 and with CalMAN Spectro software is $699. So what do you get for that $100 more.

Not to turn this in to debate of which is better ColorHCFR vs. CalMAN. But ColorHCFR support for the i1Pro is basic and not even in the same class as ours. We support the i1Pro with all three modes direct, ambient and reflectance. ColorHCFR only supports direct sorry for you guys that want to do readings from the output of a projector or other ambient type readings. Our low light handlers for the i1Pro are very advanced and well beyond anything else on the market. With ColorHCFR they just take a number of readings and average them, good readings, bad readings, errors and all so it’s really hit or miss as to what you will get. With CalMAN we take 10 to 20 readings depending on the light level and run them through statistical analyses to find the clusters, deviations and outliers from the clusters. As a result our low light readings can take up to 30 seconds just like the high end Spectros on the market, there is a reason they take 30 seconds. Our data from the low light handlers for the i1Pro is stable down to 0.05 cd/m^2. Very important when trying to calibrate these new displays that are approaching absolute black.
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Unread 05-15-2008, 05:44 PM   #40
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We support the i1Pro with all three modes direct, ambient and reflectance. ColorHCFR only supports direct sorry for you guys that want to do readings from the output of a projector or other ambient type readings.
I didn't know this, in fact, I've never read this though I have not even close to reading all the Posts available concerning ColorHCFR (or CalMAN). This is a requirement for me (FP support).

...and Greetings Derek, welcome to the Site. Thank You for accepting my invitation!

Is there anything you can add concerning CalMAN's special handling of the Display 2/LT? I know there are some on the fence to purchase or upgrade to the I1 Pro.

Last edited by Turbe; 05-15-2008 at 05:52 PM.
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