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Unread 04-16-2008, 01:04 PM   #1
Turbe
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INFO:

Most Users Posting here have 8G Pioneer Plasma Displays.

Posts #2 - #36 have been copied from the Non-Public Threads.


If any of the Beta Testers would like me to copy specific Posts from the Beta Threads into this Thread, please let me know.

Last edited by Turbe; 05-15-2008 at 03:41 PM.
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Unread 05-09-2008, 11:10 AM   #2
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I will post my impressions of CalMAN as soon as I have had time to do some tests. At the latest towards the end of the weekend or very early next week. I have some work to do on the car and other stuff that gets in the way.

One thing I can say up front is that CalMAN is great to work with, easy to design your own set of controls to follow your workflow and the tabbed design makes it very easy to keep track of your ongoing calibration and all the data. I'm beginning to see the reason for the cost simply based on how adaptable it is, but unless it means more repeatable results it won't mean much in the end...

Still keeping my fingers crossed that this software will solve the problem some of us have been having.
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Unread 05-14-2008, 04:40 AM   #3
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GorGorBey,
it would be nice if you could post a .chc containing the measures in continuos mode, from 10 to 100, to appreciate how the i1pro beheaves.
Particullarly I'm interested in the "hops" up and down...
MAybe the optimum should be to perform some free measures showing at least 20 measures per each gray pattern (200 measures total).

Also the "day after" measurements would be good!
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Unread 05-14-2008, 09:10 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blutarsky View Post
GorGorBey,
it would be nice if you could post a .chc containing the measures in continuos mode, from 10 to 100, to appreciate how the i1pro beheaves.
Particullarly I'm interested in the "hops" up and down...
MAybe the optimum should be to perform some free measures showing at least 20 measures per each gray pattern (200 measures total).

Also the "day after" measurements would be good!
I will do my best to have a two days after measure tonight...For the rest I will see how the continuous mode is working...
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Unread 05-14-2008, 10:39 AM   #5
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Just to let those interested know.

I have now made all my measurements and collected all the data from trying to compare HCFR vs CalMAN with regards to i1 D2/LT and plasma.

Now it's left to present the data which takes some work. I will post my results asap and since I've had little to no time to analyze it myself I will mostly post the raw data and we'll see what we will see, but now I'm going to watch the Hockey WC quarterfinals
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Unread 05-14-2008, 02:04 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GorGorBey View Post
I will do my best to have a two days after measure tonight...For the rest I will see how the continuous mode is working...
you could post the 200 measurements .chc?
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Unread 05-14-2008, 04:01 PM   #7
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Here is the measure two days after....You can compare with the old one if you want. You'll see that these measures are very close...

The I1PRO is definitely a must .

Futhermore it means also that the ColorHcfr tool is not in fault.

I don't have time now to do additionnal tests. I will post values later...
Attached Files
File Type: zip Before And After 2 days.zip (10.8 KB, 192 views)
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Unread 05-15-2008, 02:18 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GorGorBey View Post
Here is the measure two days after....You can compare with the old one if you want. You'll see that these measures are very close...

The I1PRO is definitely a must .

Futhermore it means also that the ColorHcfr tool is not in fault.

I don't have time now to do additionnal tests. I will post values later...
Fantastic, I'm complitely astonished! That is what I was looking for!

Neat, constant readings: the grayscale is virtually identical, don't mention gamma & luminance curve.... what a meter!

Time to make a decision! I wonder why I didn't take in account seriously UMR words about the Display LT!

Thanks a lot. If you can post the 200 measurements (20 per gray pattern from 10 to 100) it would be very kind.
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Unread 05-15-2008, 02:47 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blutarsky View Post
Fantastic, I'm complitely astonished! That is what I was looking for!

Neat, constant readings: the grayscale is virtually identical, don't mention gamma & luminance curve.... what a meter!

Time to make a decision! I wonder why I didn't take in account seriously UMR words about the Display LT!

Thanks a lot. If you can post the 200 measurements (20 per gray pattern from 10 to 100) it would be very kind.


I bought my OEM I1PRO at Spectracal : The prize is 700$ but dollar is low...

It's expensive but you don't need to buy their tool...

I take some measure yesterday in continuous mode (50 IRE and 60 IRE).

The results very identical 90% of the time... For the rest, It was negligible...
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Unread 05-15-2008, 02:57 AM   #10
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Please post that 200 measurements!
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Unread 05-15-2008, 02:59 AM   #11
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It looks like you can buy it with a 200$ rebate at 529$....
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Unread 05-15-2008, 03:21 AM   #12
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Very interesting, here are some results for comaprison:

My results using a i1 Display 2/LT from a reference measurement and 2 days later, using CalMAN:


(click to see a larger image)

Gamma, grayscale, day1:

(click to see a larger image)

Gamma, grayscale, day3:

(click to see a larger image)

My results using a i1 Display 2/LT from a reference measurement and 2 days later, using HCFR:

(click to see a larger image)

Gamma, where day 1 is reference (dotted line):

(click to see a larger image)

Grayscale, where day 1 is reference (dotted lines):

(click to see a larger image)

GorGorBey's results using a i1 Pro from a reference measurement and 2 days later:

(click to see a larger image)

Gamma, where day 1 is reference (dotted line):

(click to see a larger image)

Grayscale, where day 1 is reference (dotted lines):

(click to see a larger image)

------

Clearly a noticeable difference and hence we don't have to wonder where the "error" when comparing results from one day to the next comes from. It's from the Display 2/LT.

Having said that, the difference in reported x, y from Display 2/LT isn't what I would call horrible, it's only in the order of 0.003 at the most, i.e. within specs.

Edit: Added more comparisons for completeness.
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Unread 05-15-2008, 05:25 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfy View Post
Very interesting, here are some results for comaprison:

My results using a i1 Display 2/LT from a reference measurement and 2 days later, using CalMAN:


(click to see a larger image)

Gamma, grayscale, day1:

(click to see a larger image)

Gamma, grayscale, day3:

(click to see a larger image)

My results using a i1 Display 2/LT from a reference measurement and 2 days later, using HCFR:

(click to see a larger image)

Gamma, where day 1 is reference (dotted line):

(click to see a larger image)

Grayscale, where day 1 is reference (dotted lines):

(click to see a larger image)

GorGorBey's results using a i1 Pro from a reference measurement and 2 days later:

(click to see a larger image)

Gamma, where day 1 is reference (dotted line):

(click to see a larger image)

Grayscale, where day 1 is reference (dotted lines):

(click to see a larger image)

------

Clearly a noticeable difference and hence we don't have to wonder where the "error" when comparing results from one day to the next comes from. It's from the Display 2/LT.

Having said that, the difference in reported x, y from Display 2/LT isn't what I would call horrible, it's only in the order of 0.003 at the most, i.e. within specs.

Edit: Added more comparisons for completeness.

Wolfy....There is an error...the Gamma curves has been mixed...
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Unread 05-15-2008, 05:30 AM   #14
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Wolfy I think the GorGorBey Gamma-HCFR chart is wrong.

The 2 .chc he posted are identical from the gamma & luminance perspective...

About the Display LT we have some fluctuations....

Now probabily someone will state that those fluctations are marginal....but maybe it's time we shall start to think if it's worth it to buy the i1pro..... more constant more precise....factory recalibratable every 18 months......
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Last edited by Turbe; 05-15-2008 at 04:03 PM.
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Unread 05-15-2008, 05:36 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blutarsky View Post
Wolfy I think the GorGorBey Gamma-HCFR chart is wrong.

The 2 .chc he posted are identical from the gamma & luminance perspective...

About the Display LT we have some fluctuations....

Now probabily someone will state that those fluctations are marginal....but maybe it's time we shall start to think if it's worth it to buy the i1pro..... more constant more precise....factory recalibratable every 18 months......
I agree....

Yesterday night I tried to optimize (last one) the DVD Input...It has been done in REC601....
This time the gamma is perfect...
The RVB Curve is still ok
The Gamut becomes excellent...

I will do again a comparison tonight and If you want I will post them....

My objective tonight is to calibrate Home Gallery and DTV with the new beta….
Attached Files
File Type: zip Last Calibration.zip (5.3 KB, 38 views)
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Last edited by Turbe; 05-15-2008 at 04:02 PM.
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Unread 05-15-2008, 05:46 AM   #16
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Maybe tonight you could take some time to perform the 200 measurements....
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Unread 05-15-2008, 06:09 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blutarsky View Post
Maybe tonight you could take some time to perform the 200 measurements....

In the comparaison file (measure two days after in Combined histogram for free measure) you will be able to have continuous measures at 50 IRE and 60 IRE
Just ensure to have Luminance active to know when I changed from 50 to 60...

It was a secret bonus
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Unread 05-15-2008, 06:11 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GorGorBey View Post
Wolfy....There is an error...the Gamma curves has been mixed...
Yup, should have noticed that. That's what happens when doing several things at once, hehe. Have been fixed now.
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Unread 05-15-2008, 06:22 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blutarsky View Post
...About the Display LT we have some fluctuations....

Now probabily someone will state that those fluctations are marginal....but maybe it's time we shall start to think if it's worth it to buy the i1pro..... more constant more precise....factory recalibratable every 18 months......
Well, compare the HCFR results to the CalMAN results. Clearly less deviation from reference with CalMAN, so Derek may be absolutely correct in his statements. However, CalMAN or any other can't make the sensor any better than it is. It all seems to fit perfectly well within the limitations of the hardware.

From my measurements the fluctuations are marginal, less than the capability in the sensor itself and less than human comprehension and I strongly believe that you can't just watch numbers or a graph as means of telling the PQ.

Of course, like you I am frustrated with not getting the exact same result from only the day before, but if you look at the specs of the i1 Display 2/LT it is not that surprising. It would be extremely interesting to see similar results from measurements on a LCD TV. Then and only then can one conclude if using Display 2/LT to take measurements on plasma is the main issue.

For better results, indeed a i1 Pro seems the best option for calibration hardware for an enthusiast... at least as far as measuring on plasma
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Last edited by Turbe; 05-15-2008 at 04:02 PM.
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Unread 05-15-2008, 09:01 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GorGorBey View Post

I bought my OEM I1PRO at Spectracal : The prize is 700$ but dollar is low...

It's expensive but you don't need to buy their tool...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blutarsky View Post
It looks like you can buy it with a 200$ rebate at 529$....
Yes, You can buy the I1 Pro for $529 (with $200 Rebate). If you decide to buy, please use the link in the Post below.

http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25

Last edited by Turbe; 09-18-2008 at 07:03 PM.
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